"lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
So up front, I'm not against they/them lesbians. I have some light hesitance about he/him lesbians.
Anyone mind explaining the thinking behind the expansion of 'lesbian' to cover more than she/her-she/her relationships?
Good Girl Energy
"lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@Draekos caveats: I'm not a lesbian (though that is partly because I have partners who would feel misgendered by me identifying as such so it's one of those "I refuse to think about it too hard" things as much as anything) but I have some stuff I've learned and listened to and would like to try to answer at least some of this
"lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@Draekos so it's a complex issue with a lot of facets
1) pronouns aren't the same as gender. Someone can use any pronouns and still be a girl if they're a girl. Historically, it wasn't uncommon for butch lesbians to use he/him pronouns, go by "Daddy" and the like. One could argue that all of them were trans men that didn't have language for it but that would be presumptive and start making the discussion pretty circular
"lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@Draekos i know people who are women who use non-she/her pronouns so we can't jump from pronouns to gender to sexual orientation.
2) it isn't an "expansion" of the word to use it to mean people who don't exclusively love women. It's hard to find good sources but "lesbian" has been used in a lot of contexts historically. Much like "gay" in the 20th century, it was often used as a label that subsumed things like bisexuality
"lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@Draekos frequently any woman who loved women was called a lesbian regardless of whether they had other attractions as well. "Lesbian bars" were for any women interested in women. Like most classifications of queer people it was used in a lot of senses to define people depending on context, whether based on sexual behaviour, orientation, and what kind of orientation.
re: "lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@AzureHusky yeah point 2 was one I did know and completely agree with. Was on the tail end of a bicker with a twitter preacher so wasn't fully putting throughts together right <3
re: "lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@Draekos okay! Didn't know how much context and stuff you had so erred for over explaining
re: "lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@AzureHusky t'was a good call. Having it all talked out really makes it much clearer thank you <3
Point 1 was really my hang up and was definitely a bad thought for me to hold. Thank you!
re: "lesbian" and current queer culture (asking about)
@Draekos I'm glad i could help! I've tried to stay out of stuff and listen mostly since as not-a-lesbian (tho intensely sapphic) I don't want to be discoursing about other people's communities but I think I've learned enough (& have strong enough feelings on queer on queer gatekeeping) to say some stuff on it when needed