Gods am I fucking past burned out.
Subping/Angervent
If your version of The Discourse demands that people consume anything in detail to dismiss it, without limit or sense of timing, I'm really not sure what to say to you.
A shitty series about the confederacy surviving to the modern day is going to be a rallying point for white supremacists, you don't need to read/watch that to know it.
People who praise Mine Kampf are fucking Nazis, you don't need to read it to know it.
@IrisKalmia It is possible to appreciate things that are problematic; speaking positively about problematic things does not immediately mean you are a problematic individual.
Making that leap of assumption and leveling accusations does far more harm than speaking positively about problematic media in my honest opinion.
@mawr this is almost entirely about people deflecting such criticisms with "You haven't read it, how can you know?"
If someone wants to enjoy HBO's next shitty drama or Guns of the South while keeping awareness of the problems they pose, more power to them. If they want to shut down discussion over it's possible social impact they can fuck a cactus
@IrisKalmia Shitting all over the things people like puts them on the defensive. Turning their defensive responses back against them as evidence of poor character puts them in a position they cannot walk away from without damaging their relationship with you, unless they hang their head in shame and admit you are 100% correct and they were 100% wrong.
That's you demanding submission from those you're talking to. That's not a conversation, that's an ultimatum in disguise.
@mawr is "yeah, this has problems but I still like it." really that unobtainable of a position for most?
I feel like we're at some level talking past each other, because I can't see how I'm demanding anyone hang their head in shame and admit they're wrong to enjoy something, just that it be acknowledged that the something is being enjoyed even with it's problems rather than dismissing their mention.
@IrisKalmia It's easy from your perspective because you're used to recognizing problematic elements in things you enjoy and accepting that as part of your reality. That is a rare trait in our society, and one that is only adopted by those who recognize its importance.
Trying to get people to recognize those elements and accept them as problematic takes finesse and care in conversation because it's an uncomfortable topic. Applying more force only stiffens their resolve to defend.
@IrisKalmia In other words, you have to accept that it's okay for others to not feel the same way you do about things. That conversation frequently isn't won in a single example. It takes a while for the things you mention to sink in, and eventually the logic prevails.
If you push on it, it only turns progress against you-- and hurts both you and your conversational partner in the process.
