organized religion weird, bigotry
just saw a thing of someone attempting to argue that it's not possible to be a good person if you're not christian and what???
how does that make sense to anyone?
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re: organized religion weird, bigotry
@Angle how does that make sense though? i mean it seemed like they were saying basically "I know there were people who did really major good things who were not christians but they weren't actually good things because they weren't done by christians" and that just seems... what? how does that make sense to anyone?
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re: organized religion weird, bigotry
@Felthry I mean, I think the big argument here is something about Jesus being the source of all good, so if you do good but not in his name then it's not really good? Yeah I dunno, it doesn't really make sense to me either. XD
re: organized religion weird, bigotry
@Angle sounds like they've loaded the goalposts onto the moving van to me
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only lightly salty answer re: organized religion weird, bigotry
@Felthry It requires a foundational belief in people being inherently bad, and a foundational belief that the only way goodness can be brought into the world is through faith in a sky-daddy who always knows what's best.
organized religion weird, bigotry
@Felthry it isn't really about "making sense"
as an establishment, today's christianity is mostly a vehicle to identify groups to hate and oppress, and to give its participants the language they need to excuse themselves for doing it in the name of the lord
organized religion weird, bigotry
@Felthry Extremely common belief among christians, or at least catholics which is what I grew up around. Nothing new.
My speculation: to them, being a good person probably has a very specific meaning, it's not about being kind to others but about being kind _for the right reasons_. If you're a "good person" but you're not Virtuous about it (in the religious sense), then you're not actually being good, you must have some ulterior motive, because only someone who believes it will get them to heaven could possibly be sincere about it because they know God will know their true intentions.
All speculation, of course, but it's the kind of thing I've seen since I was pretty young, so I've been trying to decipher these behaviours for a while.
re: organized religion weird, bigotry
@socks@social.emisocks.com @Felthry@awoo.space Speaking as a former Christian: Ironically, actual Christian doctrine is that noone is good, including Christians, which is why Jesus needs to save them. (Honestly, this is super fucked-up, but that's a whole 'nother rant.) However, there are a godawful lot of people who like to make up doctrine directly opposed to actual Christian principles, slap the "Christian" label on it, and then convince everyone that that's what Christianity is.
re: organized religion weird, bigotry
@skysailor I see. I didn't think of it like that, but it's not super surprising either.
explanation re: organized religion weird, bigotry
@Felthry one of the foundational beliefs of Catholicism and its descendants (can't really speak on Eastern Orthodoxy and other non-Catholicism-descended sects) is that people are inherently sinful and evil, and only through God can one become good. Any counterexamples end up explained away as "they're not *really* a good person", because the inherent-evil belief is so deep-seated it becomes subconscious for many.
organized religion weird, bigotry
@Felthry Oh, that's a common argument you'll see among Christians. Nothing new here. XD