ever think that the "frontier days" of the internet, then the start of social media, parallel the "communal connection for the common man promptly monetized and co-opted" pattern Barbara Ehrenreich talks about in "Dancing in the Streets"?
@Leucrotta We've never read Dancing in the Streets but that sounds /incredibly/ apt.
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr I no longer have a copy (sold, or went missing), but she tackles festivals and communal experiences as diverse (and so not always positive) as references in the OT, Woodstock and music festivals of the 60s, football games and Nazi party rallies. All of this stuff which is very much individual meaning within a larger group. It's not a perfect discussion (she dismisses rave culture in one sentence!) but I really got a lot of mileage out of the thing.
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr And, since furry subculture is very much driven by festival and features costumed dancers - it's relevant to think about.
@Leucrotta @Ylfingr random furry discourse thought: oh hey this makes uncle kage a gentrifier doesn't it
@KitRedgrave @Leucrotta Who's uncle kage?
@Ylfingr @Leucrotta long story short, someone who has been trying very hard to manage the public image of furry as a thing by filing the weird edges off and smiling nice for the camera and making sure everyone else does too
who i disagree very much with
@KitRedgrave @Leucrotta Oh ugh UGH.
yeah, no thanks.
We're /literal animals/ over here darn it, he is /not/ going to erase us. *growls*
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr I have mixed feelings about the guy; I feel that being appointed spokesman for furry fandom is *not* an easy job and will involve some statements which are not great, but I also feel like 1) once given a hint of that position, he grabbed on with both hands and didn't let go and 2) there's a certain amount of apology and revision that goes with inevitable mistakes, and I don't feel like he does that. I might be wrong as I haven't staffed AC like my friends.
@Leucrotta @Ylfingr self-appointed, and he doesn't speak for all of us.
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr Which, I mean, should be part of making public statement. I feel you can't really make definitive statements about furry (like this one) accurately. Furry *isn't* about sex - until, of course, it is. Furry *isn't* about fursuiting - until it is. Furry isn't about any one cartoon show - until it is. Furry isn't about identity hacking - until it is.
@Leucrotta @KitRedgrave I mean, isn't "that isn't everyone" kind of a different kind of statement? That's /absolutely/ a thing you can say, I'd say.
@Leucrotta @KitRedgrave Going "no really that is everyone" excludes anyone from furry who doesn't fit that Defined Norm.
like, say, if you go "everyone in furry is anthro" and then I go "hey wait I'm not" and then you go "no, everyone in furry is anthro" you're saying I'm not allowed to be a furry.
@Ylfingr @KitRedgrave Fortunately "everyone's anthro" is I think far from ubiquitous opinion. Please tell me you've seen quad suits before? There's some beautiful stuff out there.
@Leucrotta @KitRedgrave We haven't, but then again we've never gone looking at fursuits... /cool!/
but like.
*eyes the very name "Anthrocon" itself*
and then you have literal full-on /definitions of furry/ that specify "anthropomorphic animals" and like, no.
@Leucrotta @KitRedgrave (But also "everyone's anthro" was just an example of Overgeneralizing Statements About Furry, albeit one it feels like we run into a lot.)
@Leucrotta @Ylfingr what irks me about that situation is that that he wields power as leadership at anthrocon to be the sole voice there, on pain of banning from the convention
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr He *was* initially asked to take a leadership role. But I used to staff FC, noteworthy for having different chairs and executive staff, etc; I'm by *nature* not going to like the idea of the same con chair for 20+ years.
Even the nature of PantheaCon as Glenn's con *for its entireity* really bothers me (and *did* go sour in places), and that's with Glenn being very hands off during the actual con - and that I like her.
@Leucrotta @Ylfingr ah, okay. consider me corrected on that point :)
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr But you see where I'm going, right?
F'rex I could be the best chair in recorded history ever, and never say or promote anything problematic, and after 5 years *or fewer*, that's still time for me to step down to create a more robust and healthier organization. Heck; after 5 years or fewer, you'd figure most people would be like "screw this, I want to actually *do* the con for a change" and it's just all kinds of ugh.
@Leucrotta @Ylfingr yeah. best to build an organization that can keep going without your personal involvement, for both its and your health
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr Uncle Kage aside, I feel like furry's in a weird position where some gentrification is inevitable and even positive in some ways - f'rex the way fursuits have become pricey, but very polished items compared to the amateurish nature of 90s fursuiting (for both good and ill). Most people would draw the line at corporate sponsorship, etc -- but I feel the actual boundary is further inwards from that, and I'm not entirely sure where it should lie.
@KitRedgrave @Ylfingr Fairly late in the book - after she talks about how all these different festivals are incredibly similar - is basically gentrification. Assuming a more organic thing started this off, some point people try to file all the rough edges off to make it more legitimate, and there's usually an associated increase in price point.