@Elizafox @vahnj A proper apology is recognition of harm done, reparations to those harmed where possible, change to prevent that harm from ever occurring again, and maybe expressing regret directly to the people affected-- but it's the least important part of an apology.

Everyone fucks up; when you make the cost for fucking up linger forever, there's no reason to ever stop fucking up.

@Elizafox @vahnj @mawr I guess something that bothers me is insisting “no I’ve changed”. Going public and getting interviewed on a news show has a similar feel. The worry is that it creates pressure for people, including direct victims, to suddenly trust/forgive the person. Not that that’s necessarily the intent behind the action. Idk redemption when actual people are hurt is complicated AF

@mawr @vahnj @Elizafox I guess in suspicious of the idea of conversion and redemption. Not that they don’t exist but they’re messy and “coming out” as not a nazi doesn’t mean everything’s immediately better. And trying to expedite that (with news interviews instead of quietly sharing with friends/family and letting it propagate by word of mouth) is an understandable desire but really doesn’t help build trust

@Elizafox @vahnj @mawr A small example: saying or doing something shitty in a relationship. Things that have not worked well historically for me: continuously insisting I’m sorry and I’ll improve. What works better: a sufficient apology and doing the actual work of fixing the behaviour without seeking acknowledgement.

@mawr @Elizafox @vahnj

> when you make the cost for fucking up linger forever, there's no reason to ever stop fucking up

The cost for fucking up always lingers forever, people just forget if they can.

Spreading hate for four decades isn't going to get cleared up with an apology, or even four decades of them.

It stains. It's high-level shit.

I hope he does better, I do. But the right reason to not fuck up is to 'do righter', not rewards, IMO.

@mawr @Elizafox @vahnj I believe @shel had a good thread on this topic a few weeks ago: if forgiveness is impossible to obtain or meaningless, the new winning move is to double down on your bad behavior

@Elizafox @vahnj @mawr

Apologizing, to quote Hermes, is done with "nice cheap words".

I don't think words are truly cheap, but they're sure a lot easier than changing actions.

If this guy's actually changed, that'll bear out for some folks -- but it can't erase what he did.

> "I feel appallingly guilty as well"

That's slightly more reassuring.

If he's lucky, his guilt will be the only consequence he experiences.

If the world is, he'll do better.