@zebratron2084 Yeah, I think one of the important things for offering PCs a stake in the world in games like this is having them enter an EXTANT social structure. It gives them something to grab onto and identify with that unites them, and also provides a ready-made source of internal tension between individual goals and organizational goals. Having them co-opt a well-meaning but misinformed supporter front for the Big Bad makes them feel not just important, but -clever.-

@hystericempress See, this is just the kind of stuff I was looking for. Knew I came to the right place. <3

@zebratron2084 Like, one thing I've found that helps a lot with wrangling a group of unruly dorks like PCs is to know when to steer, and know when to roll with whatever goofy idea they just came up with and act like you planned it all along. that's a lot easier if you have a group structure in-universe that the players can participate in and spin ideas off of, since the nature of what you built informs their choices; you give them a ball of yarn, and watch what they knit with it.

@zebratron2084 so like, consider what the 'average' tier-d or tier-c front organization for the villains looks like, and play up the 'right hand knows not what the left does' nature of the cell-like structure of the cult; that's your hook for HOW the PCs co-opt this, since they're obviously The Shiny Perfect New Order Of Human Evolution and the main branch can't -refute it directly- without losing credibility.

@hystericempress I figure I really wanna play up the "yeah, um, social media fucked EVERYTHING up and consensus reality has plotzed" aspect of it, so I figure it's a bit like the "Jilly Juice" and "Miracle Mineral Solution" health-quackery crowd.

They don't really need much of a formal structure or enforcement arm at the lower levels, since their True Believers will spontaneously form into both... They're basically buying vials of RNA slime off Wallamazagoogle and drinking it down with little or no idea what it really does... Ooh, which means some of the same crazy transformative stuff is already taking place out in general society, just not at the same level or speed.

Oh, geeze, and maybe it's something like... you ever read the Wild Cards superhero anthologies? It's like the xenovirus from that, where it either subtly mutates ("evolves") you into something less human, or just subtly kills you over time, and both are JUST FINE with its purveyors... Basically, imagine if all the WORST PEOPLE on Youtube got a hold of honest-to-gods genehacking first...

@hystericempress Hmm. That also raises some interesting questions about what media and communications technology are like in this world, and what happens when the PCs get access to it... Also, sooner or later, the world at large is DEFINITELY finding out about them, because I don't do That Mr. Ed Shit... :D

@zebratron2084 precisely. Villains of this style aren't going to come at the heroes directly, because as actual EXAMPLES of their research, just crushing them out of hand... doesn't help their cause, it makes them look fractious, and to a cult, the illusion of unity is PARAMOUNT. they'll want to come at the PCs sideways; do frame-ups, try to make them martyrs for -their- cause. the most dangerous tool a modern corporate antagonist has is 'PR management.'

@hystericempress And I do wanna have at least some of the scientists at the lab be potential allies of the PCs. They're not all exactly evil, especially not compared to some of the horrible shit that's happening OUTSIDE the labs and cult compounds... The PCs might even find themselves oddly revered, or find the scientists having weirdly mixed feelings about them. They ARE the Designated Heirs Of Humanity, the Glorious New Flesh, after all. (Which will just make it sting all the more if they end up turning on each other out of pragmatism—playing up my sincere believe that EVERY ideology subverts and discards its original principles as soon as they're inconvenient to growth and survival.)

I kinda want a lot of the threats to the PCs be philosophical, social, or existential. People *generally* won't be trying to snuff them, though their own weird genomes might have a go at them occasionally—and the scientists will just give a Mad Princess-Bubblegum/Entrapta-like smile and squeal "DELIGHTFUL! IT'S WORKING! HOW I ENVY YOU!" And then inject themselves with it and promptly start deliquescing into goo. Because as per Neil Gaiman, there's NOBODY scarier than someone who genuinely only wants to hurt you in order to SAVE you.

@zebratron2084 Yep. Doing these kinds of 'social heroics' campaigns can be tricky, but if it's clear it's very hard to present a physical threat while still allowing the PCs to exercise their abilities, it allows you to make the social arena all the more threatening because they -can't- mind-laser their way out of it easily.

@hystericempress I mean, I'm NOT gonna do something set in the Crapsack Future and forbid the PCs to ever just pick up a bunch of AR-15s and wreck some shop. :3 But in the first, pre-escape phase, especially, I want to lean heavily on tense confrontations and IMPLICIT threats of physical violence, 'cause basically ALL the cards are in the hands of the critters' captors. The threat is always there: we love you, you are our future, but if you act up too badly, there's a machine in the next room that can reduce you to a soup-like homogenate in 1.7 seconds...

@zebratron2084 all this said: it is now time for me to run campaign for real today, so I'm gonna dip on the discussion; feel free to hit me up later, however! <3

@hystericempress (pause to snarf down some much-needed pho bo vien...)