politic
@body@mastodon.social @acetone_kitten I just could never get Jordan to understand why the concept of "work" in a stateless and largely automated society bothered me as much the need to empower "workers." I kept asking, "what's your plan for the day after the robot revolution" and getting back "workers of the world unite". That's not a very helpful answer.
I'm still giving them 25/month for the cause. I'm just not _invested_.
politic
@body@mastodon.social @acetone_kitten That's totally legit, and I agree, but if people are continuing to organize around a concept that is inherently exploitative in its present form and unlikely to exist in the future in a recognizable format because of automation, what happens to workers' collectives?
I agree organization is valuable. I'm just frustrated that SocAlt is baking a poison pill into its treatment program and counting on society not getting well that quickly.
politic
@body@mastodon.social @acetone_kitten Mostly it was the nature and the concept of work as an end goal. I kept asking Jordan about what happens to people when their jobs are automated away and his answer was "they can go find some other productive means of contributing to society" and I asked how many times he'd changed careers in his life because a robot took his job class away from him and he stared at me blankly and quoted from Marx about worker dignity again.
politic
@body@mastodon.social @acetone_kitten I mean, fundamentally, I don't agree with Marx's entire take on the nature of the lumpenproletariat. I tried several times to convey the idea that I was cincerned Marx was unprepared for the full consequences of the industrial revolution and that I agreed with his basic economics but I was much more in the mold of Spooner, Goldman, Bakunin, and Davis. I didn't get back a great deal of support or encouragement for that.
politic
@acetone_kitten @body@mastodon.social But that's just it. They don't think we are. Marx's own take on anarchism, best as I understand it, is that the "lumpenproletariat," which included anarchists like Bakunin, were human trash best consigned to the dustbin of history. Nothing in Jordan's or anyone else at SocAlt's attitudes towards my anarchomutualism suggested they they thought any differently. They genuinely don't believe that we're on the same team. So why should I stay where I'm not wanted?
politic
@acetone_kitten @body@mastodon.social And that all manifested around the fact that we couldn't even agree that the concept of "work" itself assumes some level of obligatory time exchange for social support. I couldn't get anyone at SocAlt to say "it's okay if you don't want to work; society should protect you even if you never lift a finger." Nobody with whom I spoke could conceive of the idea that UBI might liberate people from having to consider productivity mandatory.
politic
@acetone_kitten @body@mastodon.social So again, I'm glad y'all doin' the work, 'cause you're better than the alternatives, but SocAlt is only my ally in the sense that they're the enemy of my enemy. I don't feel like they're really on my side.
politic
@body@mastodon.social @acetone_kitten Again, I'm glad y'all doin' the work. It's good work and better than the alternatives. I'm just not bought in 'cause I see the schism on the horizon 'tween the Reds and Blacks and I've had trouble even getting some local SocAlt members to acknowledge the Anarchist position as real, to say nothing of reasonable or meaningful. So, that's worth not fighting for my 25/month back, but it's not worth giving more.