@onfy yeah intel or nvidia

@noiob You can boot with an Nvidia GPU using only free software and firmware?

@onfy no but free software folks don't care if they don't see the firmware, so the nouveau driver is fine

@noiob Eh... probably not. I'm expecting that not to work either with the "normal" image.

And like... I get what they're getting at, you can't truly know what it's doing in there... but also also there's kind of a logistical issue in running your totally free software when the hardware you're trying to run it on becomes nonfunctional...

@noiob (For better or worse though, my newest Nvidia GPU is from 2008 and I don't even know if it still works, so I can't test this.)

@onfy I've run debian on a nvidia gpu for ages, the only thing that required non-free was the intel wifi card. The FSF's official stance is that blobs are fine if they're on external hardware and you don't have to interact with it, which is ridiculous

@noiob Wait wait... what. Is AMD doing something different then?

@onfy they probably package the firmware with the driver so driver updates can include firmware updates? but idk

@onfy maybe they're just using a license debian doesn't like

@noiob Such wonderful consistently here... my stance, I think, is in terms of functionality. (Well, unless it would cause significant legal problems, I guess.) Like, I'd only want proprietary stuff if it works... does that make any sense? Doesn't much matter anyway.

@noiob Actually, I'm more confused, isn't the wifi card's firmware also running on the card? I thought that was the whole point, the hardware could be spying on you or whatever.

@onfy in that case it's about the iwlwifi driver

@onfy you don't need to have access to the software to be able to black box test a wifi card I guess