@Phorm (DISCLAIMER: Rant incoming, and I'm genuinely sorry, hun. I... I'm not mad at you, I'm LIVID at the forces that have got you feeling that down and that screwed. *hug if accepted* I can't just stand here and not fire back at them.)

You're welcome to believe what you want, but I've gotta be brutally honest here: I can't see how it's been leading you to anywhere good.

I put up with 15 years of constant doomsaying in one of my previous relationships, and people on Livejournal saying Bush was also gonna round us up and put us in camps, and here we are still standing. So maybe I've just formed a callus about these things and you're dead right.

I'm not angry at you in the least, and I'm not gonna try to force you to change sides on this, but I'm also not buying any of the pessimism personally. Our enemies are fierce, but I think that *severely* undercuts our own strength and potential ferocity. We're talking like 2016 doomed us all, after we "lost" the vote by -2.5 percent. I see every indication that we *could* spring back from the Trump Era, and the main thing stopping us is our own lack of the determination and confidence our opponents have.

This idea didn't come out of nowhere. I've been reading Gary Lachman's Dark Star Rising: Magick and Power in the Age of Trump, which details how the kind of resignation, fear, and desperation you've been feeling—and darlin', you'd better believe I have ALL the sympathy in the world for you, you've had it real rough in your position—is a direct and knowing consequence of their Putin-esque mindfuckery strategies. It is also the *main* thing they have going for them, the ability to cast illusions of real strength, when all they really have is the ability to manipulate a few basic glitches of human psychology, on both sides, over and over again.

I've also been reading about Hitler's rise to power. As much as I've come to agree the modern right meets almost all of Umberto Eco's warning signs of a proto-fascist society... there are some fascinating differences in this strain. Authoritarians in the 1930's didn't have to pretend they're not authoritarians. Racists didn't have to pretend they're not racists. And they didn't live in a society where everybody was under constant media scrutiny and public debate. There is a whole new level of cognitive dissonance at work here, and I agree with you 100% that it's scary and evil and a genuine cosmic injustice that these yoinks are holding back our society during one of the most dangerous periods of human history.

But I don't think this system will hold for long enough to become *that* sort of violent. They can't even oppress a few thousand migrants—a grand old American tradition that's not even that far out of step with our history, tragically—without massive backlash and public debate. (NGL, it concerns me deeply how little progress we've made on that, but again, the argument isn't "terrible things aren't happen" or "they'll go away on their own," it's "we haven't even BEGUN to deploy our actual power to stop these things, and when we do, they WILL be effective."

Additionally, the GOP has tried, what, FIVE TIMES to tank the ACA and still failed? They've tried over and over again to sink the far-left block in the GOP and their approval numbers just get higher and higher. I've never seen democratic socialism come this close to the mainstream in my lifetime. And Trump can't even crest a 45% approval rating. There's an enormous speedbump between him and whatever dreams of utter authoritarian power he has. And while I am indeed pretty scared about corruption and Russian intervention in 2020, I think that risks a huge fatal overreach for them... and if they do (I think wisely for them, which means they probably won't do it) play it straight, the polls are pretty solidly in our favor. (I know, I know, they were for Hillary too... but that looks to me like a mixture of last-minute overconfidence, Comey's October Surprise, and Independents leaning right... which every statistical and historical indication is that they will NOT do in 2020...)

I don't want to make it sound like I don't think he's a threat, nor that everything's going to be okay by default. The modern GOP is absolutely a serious and dangerous threat, and it will take decades to clean up the entire mess. But honestly... your resignation and despair, and that of my other friends and allies, scare me more than the enemy itself does. I'm not talking about "we do nothing and everything will be okay," we're talking "there is a real threat here but we have the power and numbers to dispel it, IF we keep faith and stick together." They may very well still try to ruin us if they reach a big enough of success *or* failure. My prediction, please understand, is that stopping them utterly is still WELL within our power, as long as we don't go full Scream Of The Shalka and hide in our basements for fear of waking them.

Only history will vindicate one or both of us... though at this point... I am QUITE willing to make a wager with you, if you're that confident. *evil grin* I don't mean to trifle... but I figure if we all get killed by 2024, I won't have to pay up, so it's a pretty sweet deal for me admittedly. :>

Love ya, hon. All I'm saying is stay as strong as you can—and if you can't, let the rest of us be strong for you. The battle is gonna happen, and it might get pretty ugly, but its results are FAR, FAR, FAR from determined. You're talking like I'm saying "a Death Star in orbit isn't worth getting upset over," but what I'm actually trying to tell you is "I think there's a huge weakness in its ventilation system..." And I honestly can't see how "the Empire is undefeatable, let's give up" is any more responsible of an attitude than "let's at least send in a squadron and see if we can fuck this Vader asshole up."

@zebratron2084

(Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be rude, or piss you off. I'm certainly not trying to be ungrateful. I appreciate what you're saying, but I can't just ignore what I'm feeling, either. Also, this whole thing is just brain vomit on my part and I sort of feel like I want to die, so maybe I'm just not in a good place right now.)

I understand the point you're making, but I still feel like it's dangerously myopic. Or maybe the better phrase is narrow minded?

I don't think the "We survived Nixon, we survived Bush" argument holds water, because we're not dealing with isolated, solitary moments in a vacuum here. We can't just ignore that the GOP LEARNED from all of that. When Watergate finally sank Nixon, the lesson they learned was that they had to control the media, and infiltrate the supreme Court - they've done both, and are set up in a way that they've never been in the past. They control the Senate in a way they hadn't in the past, too.

Right now, they might not be an overwhelming majority, as you point out, but who gives a fuck? They have a monopoly on power. They can do whatever they want. Who's going to stop them? Maybe a few scattered citizens, but fuck'em. They can be murdered or imprisoned with little difficulty

We have no opposition party, either, which is a massive difference. Pelosi and the rest of the entrenched Dems are so quick to throw the slightest socialist under the bus. Did you not see how quickly she bowed yesterday, eager to avoid offending Trump, afraid of what would happen if she called him a racist? These are the only people even marginally close to making a difference, and they decided that they'd RATHER FUND CONCENTRATION CAMPS THAN FIGHT THEM.

Capitalism is reaching it's endgame, and while it's about to collapse, fascism is here to keep it going as long as possible. And that means that people who were once allies are going to be more concerned about making existing power structures than preserving lives or justice.

I appreciate that there were doomsayer's during Bush saying that we'd be put in camps. I appreciate that never happened.

WE FUCKING HAVE CAMPS NOW. Who the fuck do you think is going in them next?

Don't give me this bullshit about optics, either (sorry, that just pisses me off). There's been a searing light on this for a while now. No one gives a shit beyond shaking their head and saying either "They deserve it" or "It's not right". And the people saying "It's not right" aren't going to do anything about it because it put them at extreme risk to do so (myself included).

I feel like you're ignoring the progress THEY'VE made. I know you're not saying "Golly gee, we'll be fine, just ride it out!" But I still feel like your giving a much more rosey impression than is warranted. Yeah, they aren't a majority. But they're the only ones that ANYONE cares about. No one cares oppose them since they wield all the power.

They aren't the majority, but they've rigged the system so they're the only ones who /matter anymore/.

(That was awful and made no sense, but I wanted it out of my system and I'm sorry)

@Phorm There's no further progress to be made here, and I'm sorry. I'll leave you be.

@zebratron2084 It's understandable.

Most everyone in my life gives up on me eventually.

Some kinda design flaw. I gotta learn to live with it.

@Phorm
I'm sorry, but I have to ask.

Why are you playing devil's advocate for a side that has been willing to literally scorch the earth for the sake of personal gains, knowing full well that they would turn on you in half a heartbeat if it was somehow to their benefit?

@zebratron2084

@JulieSqveakaroo I'm not playing Devil's advocate.

@zebratron2084

On a less relevant note, maybe next time instead of a Jeff Winger speech, we can get a Doug Winger speech.

Just makes more of an impression, ya'know?

@Phorm Heh. Anyhow, I'm going for a bit because the last thing on earth I want is to fight you, and I ain't taking any chances given the last couple years I've had... but I still care about you and I will be back. *hug*

@zebratron2084 Still care about you too. Promise. *Hug*

Sorry.

@Phorm It's really OK. I just dunno what else to say, and I gotta pursue this more hopeful path for a while and see where it leads.

@hystericempress Right? I... thought it was time to remind people that "down" and "out" are separate concepts for a reason, and the alt-right are not the only ones who occupy territory and have an arsenal here...

@zebratron2084 There is a tendency, I think, for a lot of well-meaning, particularly well-meaning WHITE leftists to cave-in the instant actual opposition presents itself, because they haven't... really had to stare down the barrel of very personal, targeted, direct oppression before. Meanwhile, like... I'm brown and grew up in the Bush years. Anyone saying 'but we have camps now' is kind of forgetting how long Guantanamo has been running...