lord of the rings pontification
part of the problem with the original series *is* how black and white everything is. that's explicitly how tolkien wrote it bc it wasn't about a nuanced story it was about building a world for his language using his historical framework of world war 2
you know, the war where the allies were explicitly "good" and the axis were explicitly "evil", a framework that he worked within
the shadows of war devs are silly as heck thinking this justifies shelob in a dress
lord of the rings pontification
@vahnj Tolkein explicitly said he hated allegorical stories and it's not a metaphor/allegory for anything
So while it can be read as about WW2, that's not authorial intent, that's reading into Tolkein's personal life & history and making connections after the fact.
Which isn't to say "authorial intent or worthless" as interpretations go, or that Tolkein's flawless; but that Tolkein didn't explicitly write it about WW2, he said the opposite.
lord of the rings pontification
@vahnj @vahnj https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/411971-i-cordially-dislike-allegory-in-all-its-manifestations-and-always (for source. sorry if I sound grouchy. I'm not, I'm just tired.)
lord of the rings pontification
@pastelbat i'm not saying it's an allegory for WW2 but given what I know from what I've studied about him he is the kind of person whose life was dramatically affected by the war and I really sincerely doubt it did not influence the development of characters
the most amount of dynamic we get is "good people can get corrupted" or "bad guy is bad", and pretty much everything else is clearcut, except when it relates to gods (the Valar- with the Tom Bombadil theory)
lord of the rings pontification
@pastelbat a lot of symbolism is p obvious too -
like hobbits are supposed to represent the hope of mankind in LOTR, they're effectively children
orcs are a thin veneer around black people - we don't explicitly see any actual black people in the stories, only references to servants with black or dark skin (humans)
dwarves are a jewish stereotype
my WW2 analysis comes from having read the Silmarillion - all the conflicts are framed as "us vs them" basically
lord of the rings pontification
@vahnj Ahhh, yeah..
I misread what you said, I thought you were saying Tolkein intended it as a WW2 allegory. I'm sorry.
I haven't been following Shadow of Mordor but after trying the original I found the combination of "gross racial tropes around orcs" * "Make them your slaves and manipulate their society to dominate them" very offputting (and then stapled onto.. Assassin's Creed Arkham Combat in the dreariest landscape ever)
lord of the rings pontification
@vahnj I agree that Tolkein is very simplistic-manichean in his.. Setting and the worldview it seems to espouse, and.. It laid the roots in fantasy for the whole race = species = handful o' character traits thing.
So.. Yah. I agree, and misunderstood you saying stuff that can be seen as influences as authorial Word of God on what it All Means. >>;;
lord of the rings pontification
@pastelbat and i didn't even finish the silmarillion lmao
anyway critiques aside i do like his universe, it's silly the devs claim things are "shades of gray" in the universe at all to me