@KawaSeadrake Well, there's "alchemy" (my symbols and how I work with magic) and there's "magic" (how to build a magic system and work with it to better yourself). And most of what I want to talk about is the latter because once you understand that the former becomes kind of... implementation-detail-y? Like, you have to find the system that works for you, because this is such a personally invested space.
@literorrery @KawaSeadrake (and @Fuego)
I... hmm.
May I respectfully raise the point that I'm not sure the world needs yet another "magic is what you make of it, do what thou wilt!" text, and what it does need is more earnest and forthright EXAMPLES of how someone did that for themself?
Spirits know that if I had earlier access to the latter, I'd be a lot further along in my own personal figuring-out.
@literorrery @KawaSeadrake @Fuego
More to the point: HOW MANY tech projects have burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp after someone uttered the dread phrase "Oh, that's just an implementation detail!"
@indi @KawaSeadrake @Fuego ... Gah, double post, sorry.
@literorrery @KawaSeadrake @Fuego
Even more to the point, by way of delving deeper into the analogy: Magic has a whole lot of "Anyone can code!" books, a whole plague of "101 scripts for your website" books, and very few tomes on design patterns. :)
@Fuego @KawaSeadrake @literorrery
Worse, there are many books I can think of that say "Design Patterns" on the cover, and inside have 101 scripts for your website. ;)
@KawaSeadrake @Fuego @indi ... Muhgowrm, you're suggesting I write a book on Practical Metamagic.
Worse, I am seriously considering it.
@literorrery @indi @KawaSeadrake whoreyou calling a mugworm???
@KawaSeadrake @indi @Fuego "Muh Gowrm," a generic swear on the order of h*ck but less offensive. =n.n=
@literorrery @indi @KawaSeadrake mmmmmmmmmmugworm.
@literorrery @indi @KawaSeadrake I would be so happy to contribute to this book
@literorrery I'm also saying that if you write it without me I am going to be QUITE annoyed. ;)
@indi @literorrery @KawaSeadrake his is why I like bluefluke's manual so much. And I'll let you know what I think of Billy Brujo's when I finish all the exercises.
@Fuego I've had a train of thought running for the last several minutes trying to decide what I think of Bluefluke's book, because I knew it was going to come up.
I like a lot about it, for sorta the same reason, it gets close to the 'design pattern' approach.
Perhaps the main reason I bounced off it a bit was the same reason I struggled with of Gamma, Helm Johnson, and Vlissides: I don't code in Java. ;)
@Fuego I think perhaps I did get a whiff of 'one-way-ism' off of it in the implications, made a bit more frustrating by the fact that it textually kept saying 'there are other ways'.
All that being said, I'll admit that as basically an ex-chaote myself, I'm probably hypersensitized to that sort of thing.
@indi I tend to read it more as "this way exists"
@Fuego Yeah, that'd explain why it rubbed just-me wrong; I _know_ that way exists. ;)
I don't want to sound like I'm being negative about it at all, because it gave me a lot of useful food for thought too. It's just not what I personally would give to someone just starting out.
I can see why others would, though. ;)
@Fuego @indi There are absolutely parts of his work that I adore, because I think they nail parts of the training and practice that most manuals just don't. There are parts that clearly illustrate where his original training comes from, and it shows. This is not a condemnation! Merely something that needs to held in awareness when reading. Likely inescapable, really.
@literorrery @Fuego Yeah, basically all this.
@indi yeah that makes a ton of sense. And java is a really good metaphor for how he codes ;) I think it works for me because I code in nothing ;)
@Fuego At least Bluefluke doesn't end up like a bunch of other chaotes sounding like a PUA dirtbag whenever dealing with the subject of spirits. That counts for a TON with me.
@indi hahahhahah PUA dirtbage x chaote is a thing I'm sure
@Fuego Yes I too have read /r/occult. ;)
@indi I am /r/averse
@Fuego For good reason. :)
Each and every subreddit is a fascinating and unique example of how community-building can fail. ;)
@Fuego @KawaSeadrake @indi Oh, I'm not just ignoring the implementation! I want to show it as "here's how I got where I ended up from the theory." The details without the theory leaves anyone who can't make that paradigm work out in the cold. The theory, however, is not enough either, I grant you. There's too little there to grasp.