@angrboda @smallesttiger Caregiver reserves are finite, too. And often they're assumed to be infinite just because they're deeper than the people who're depending on us. Managing that is __hard__. And sometimes the shame of not knowing how to say "I can't help you right now; I have to take care of me for a while" can drive me to burn spoons I haven't got. I've done a lot of damage to myself that way over the years, from which I'm only just now starting to recover.

@literorrery @angrboda Telling someone who needs me “I can’t” feels like the hardest most hurtful thing I can do. How can I tell someone who is depressed that the unrelenting misery every time I talk to them is burning me out, without only making it worse? (of course the answer is to not say it like that but. Any kind of pulling away or withdrawal from these people who need so intensely feels like such a tight rope it’s easier to just continue on)

@smallesttiger @angrboda I know it's hard. For me, it feels like failure, every time, because it says "I have limits." It's a declaration that I have boundaries that I'm not willing r possibly even unable to cross, and that I'm being asked to cross them. And I hear you. Great Work knows that hurts to admit, because even saying it can hurt people.

But not saying it will hurt them more, because it sets you both up to fail when they ask you for something and you literally _can't_.

@angrboda @smallesttiger You can be gentle. You can be patient. You can offer other resources. You can say "I'll take a note and get back to you later about this, but you're going to have to deal with it for now." You can offer to call 911 or another friend. You can tell people you'll find them other help, but you don't always have to be the one taking on their pain for them. And if they turn down that offer of secondary assistance... that's on them. You've discharged your duty.

@smallesttiger @literorrery when someone close to you sees any withdrawal or flagging of support as validation for their own self hatred and refuses to believe you when you say otherwise, is the point that I decided was the threshold between being emotional support and being held hostage.

What to do when you hit that point is like... legitimately a really tough question. It's probably the hardest thing I've ever had to navigate.

@smallesttiger I know it's a cliche but if you ever want to talk about it with someone who's been there, let me know.

@angrboda can we go to a tiger retreat where no one is allowed to need anything from us?

@smallesttiger @angrboda This sounds like a good idea. I support it.

@smallesttiger ugh, if only

@angrboda @smallesttiger It isn't easy, and there is no "always true" answer I can offer, either. Every case is going to be unique and depend on where you are on your emotional recovery with everything else in your life and what other options that person has.

Just, please, try to remember that no situation is so bad that you are their only option for help, and also that you too are deserving of help when you need it.

@literorrery @angrboda I don’t know what to do other than feel like a terrible partner/friend and I hate that my immediate reaction to someone feeling bad is to emotionally check out now

@angrboda @literorrery YES. I have no idea what to do. I’m on that threshold; do I tell all my friends and partners that I can’t help anyone anymore and watch them all fall apart? Or do I just keep having three hour text message conversations about depression brain, keeping up my unrelenting positivity until I’m completely fried

@smallesttiger @angrboda I hear you. This is legit hard.

The best I can offer is that you're allowed to take care of yourself. If that means not taking care of someone else for a day, an hour, even a minute, that's okay. If they can't forgive you for making sure that you're in a position to _keep_ being there for them, the relationship isn't healthy and something needs to change.

I hope you can find the peace and strength to be there for yourself as passionately as you are for others.

@smallesttiger @literorrery the thing that I had to make peace with is the idea that they wouldn't want to be hurting you and the only way for them to move forward w/o continuing to do that involves any or all of getting a better handle on stuff / a better action plan for their depression / a more diversified support network.

Like, the fact that they naturally beat themselves up doesn't exempt them from the fact that what they're doing does actively suck, even if they don't realize it.