Indi Latrani @indi@awoo.space

@KawaSeadrake All of this could describe me too; with added gender-preference complications. So yeah I'm thinking real hard about this and/but also really want other POVs. :)

@Ulfra_Wolfe@witches.town Not at all! Thank you so much for sharing!

@Ulfra_Wolfe@witches.town @Oneironott Part of what I'm thinking about this, in trying to design something that helps folks communicate it, is an implicit signal: "Because I'm displaying this, I am inviting deeper communication about my needs in these area." That's the first and most important goal of this; any information it displays above that is a bonus, a beginning of communication, basically.

@tastymochafox Sure! :)

Re the current discussions about making friends in communities where open sexuality is common, I'm thinking about how we can do better with tools and values about communication.

So, I have a question for folks, especially those who feel they're not well-served in these communities currently:

What do YOU, personally, want others to know about your needs, regarding sexuality or lack thereof?

(Answers in DMs okay!)

@Ulfra_Wolfe@witches.town @mawr @literorrery I was gonna say, it sounded like you were agreeing more than not. 💜 Oh, for an edit-toot button. ;)

I do think we need to allow for it being different for different folks. There may be folks who honestly don't want to cuddle if it can't lead to sex, and that has to be okay too, just at it should be okay for (for instance) interest to be exclusive to one gender presentation. That's another reason why early-communication is helpful.

@literorrery It's a risk I take on when I end up being very wordy, I suppose. ;)

@mawr I can apply some DESIGN to this problem. ;)

@literorrery I'd ask you to not read too deeply into that word choice, as it was not deeply considered.:) I feel the same way about cuddling and other forms of intimacy but at the same time I don't feel up for all the same forms of intimacy with everyone. I agree that communication and connections are important and it sounds like one good avenue here is to consider how to facilitate those more easily.

@literorrery This is a legit response for sure, but it's not one that we can always trust is universal; I can easily think of pairwise interactions in this community where it didn't work out that way, and I'm not even privy to the stuff that @mawr has talked about. I believe this is the case for you, but I'm never sure it's the case with arbitrary others.

@mawr @literorrery I'd like to think we could build a culture where it's welcomed and accepted for these sort of negotiations about preferences to happen early and often, and maybe even ambiently. I've joked before about having a "postfurry hanky code" or "exocosm wixxx" and that's coming to mind again.

@mawr @literorrery There's admittedly a lot of potential for front-loading of emotional labor there too (see also why I haven't really been able to do this better) but I wonder if that's necessarily so.

@mawr @literorrery
If I may think out loud a bit here, I'm wondering how other folks affected by this would feel about some method of... I hate to call it "early disclosure" but I'm at a loss for another meaning. I ask because this relates to my current apparent coping mechanism (pre-emptively occupying myself otherwise) and also what I keep trying to do with varying levels of success (talk openly and empathetically about my own preferences)

@mawr @literorrery As you describe more of this, it's sounding more and more like something I can sort of relate to and have even somewhat dealt with myself by keeping myself busy at parties rather than indulging in cuddling. Which makes me think about this in a whole different way.

And it also relates to some of the othering I do feel in this community (and have been thinking about a lot lately) regarding gender presentation/preferences. Hmm.

@mawr (And to be even more clear, and I should have said this at the beginning, this NOT some sort of request for you to justify your position against any sort of skepticism, it's me thinking out loud as I try to get my head around the issue. I'm really happy you spoke up about this and I want to see this get better.)

@mawr I hope this does not sound like I'm trying to make this all about me; I believe this is a thing that's happening to you, and I believe that it feels very othering and uncomfortable. I want to help with that, so I'm trying to understand it better, and part of that to me is looking at why others of us might be missing it, even/especially those of us who might be affected by this script but aren't.

@mawr With most folks I know in this community, I'd probably be in the same boat of not wanting to progress to 3, but at the same time, I've not felt that expectation. I suppose there's lots of potential reasons why (Let's name a few more: Am I missing social signals? Am I seen as unapproachable somehow?) and I'm worried that without seeing that myself, I won't know how to counter is.

@mawr That does sound really othering and upsetting and I'm sorry it's been happening to you. It's something I want to make sure does not happen to folks too, because I agree it's not a good pattern for everyone.

I do have to admit some confusion though, because it's not a pattern I've seen play out myself in recent years and I'm trying to figure out why/how I've missed it; random happenstance? I'm not the right gender presentation?

@literorrery Oh but that's exactly why it's coyote-helping. ^.^