Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

If it's wrong to compare every Christian to Robert Tilton, or every atheist to Richard Dawkins, then it's wrong to compare every communist to Stalin.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery Oof. I take issue with that one. Not every christian or atheist is a terrible person, but there are a hell of a lot of examples of how communism was really really bad in many countries.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis I stand by my assertion. Not every communist is a terrible person, either, and communism is no more inherently doomed to fail than any other political system. The democratic republic is equally open to fail states -- we're living in one now -- but I don't hear people saying "democratic republics are a failure" because of it.

Although a lot of millennials are starting to say that of democratic republics....

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis Free Christiana, Denmark, is still going strong. Shinmin, Manchuria, was going fine up until the Japanese invaded from one side and the Chinese from the other after a series of local leaders were assassinated. Can't blame its failure on the political system itself.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery Okay, the first one there is a thousand people. The second lasted three years from what my quick googling said. If you want to be serious, show me something that lasted for 50 years plus with millions of people that actually worked (and obviously wasn't horrific).

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery For the record, I'm lean democratic socialist, but I'm also enough of a realist that I don't think capitalism will ever truly go away, even if it's not the mainstay. Stupid self interest might be able to be driven into the black market, but you're never going to kill it completely.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery (I say that so that you know I'm not just idealistically opposed. Yes, we need to do better.)

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis It's not that. It's that I think A) you have an unreasonable expectation that there be prior art, B) you're pointing at things that aren't communism and calling them communism. So before I dig any deeper into this, I want to know what you think communism is.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery Okay, I want you to know I'm taking you seriously, but I am seriously considering walking away from this conversation since I don't want to drown in minutiae. That said, give me a sec to re-state what I mean here.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery 1) I am not comparing all communists to Stalin. 2) I /am/ however, very concerned that the folks who promote that system of government (which implies use of force to implement it, because not everyone agrees) haven't learned the lessons of history. (1/N...)

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis 2) All forms of government imply the use of force to implement them. Not a valid argument. That's what a police force is, and that's its ultimate purpose, since there is no means of becoming stateless-by-choice in modern society.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery Agreed. (I actually typed up and deleted that from my statement, because I decided I wanted to underscore the disagreements instead.)

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery I don't think you can establish state control of a *large scale* economy without the prerequisite of political control, hence all existing implementations ending up in human rights disasters.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis The political control of a political communist state comes from every commune electing a represenative for the district, which so on and so forth up to the size of a state itself. The top level of the communist state evolves emergently from below.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery Yes? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis You mentioned something about there being no means to establish state control of a large-scale economy without the prerequisite of political control. This is where that political control comes from in a political communist system. Also, I'm not that worried about "large-scale" economies, but we can quibble over size in a future discussion.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery Okay... let's just leave this off for now, then. I think we're talking past each other, unfortunately. :/ (And I think I'm not adequately communicating the emotional side of what I want to be communicating, so I need to think on that.)

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis As you wish. My door is open.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery Appreciated. I'm going to do some writing this weekend and see if I can work on my communication issue. ^^;

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@literorrery That's not really a question I can answer here. People have written entire damned books on it. XD Start here at least: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communis

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis Okay, give me some credit for being slightly more in-the-know than a wikignome. Communism has a ton of _connotative_ baggage attached to it. I want to know what elements of that connotation you're pointing at and labeling as problematic.

Hot Take, Politics and Religion Edition 

@zetasyanthis Okay, hold up a sec: what do you think I'm saying when I say "communist"?

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