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Sub-tooting Discourse 

@KoBunny @mawr I think you've hit on something important here that deserves further unfolding. Often that fire takes the form of fireballs flung at whomever chooses to show up, and I've been the target of undeserved anger enough for one lifetime. I'm quite happy to help people process their emotions, but not when I'm being made the _target_ of them, as distinct from the _receptacle_. I'll accept almost any expression of personal pain, but none of lashing out in kind.

weaponized snark 

@zebratron2084 I don't want to say "you're not angry for a valid reason" to somebody who's angry, regardless of why they're angry; it's disempowering and it's belittling. But if the anger seems to be based on something I know isn't true, or at least has a lot more nuance than is being presented in the moment, it's not fair to expect me to sit there and passively absorb both the anger and the misstatements. If you have suggestions for how to handle that, I'm happy to hear them.

weaponized snark 

@zebratron2084 When you want to validate the emotional content of a message without validating the factual claims being presented in the message, how would you suggest people proceed? I never want to suggest that people don't know what they're feeling, or that feelings themselves are bad or wrong, but a lot of times people -- myself included -- get their emotions knotted around things that aren't true, or at least are open to multiple framings.

@S_Nautilee@scalie.business Negative emotional content.

Sub-tooting Discourse 

@mawr Usually, I let the subtoot go. I tell myself that many people have gotten into the habit of treating their public communication spaces like private environments and work to maintain the polite fiction that I didn't see what got said or that I wasn't hurt by it. It's emotional labor, but it's worth doing for people I care about. Sometimes I can't quite manage it and I speak up anyway, even when I know doing so only escalates the tension. I make mistakes too.

... and now I'm sweating.

This is my body's way of telling me I'm still sick, even if I feel okay, isn't it? This thing needs better dashboards or an admin panel or something.

I'm inadequately dressed for this weather. I thought the cold was mostly past us, so I didn't wear insulated socks. This was a mistake.

"Draw me like one of your Whelan covers."

@JulieSqveakaroo That is a heapin' helpin' o' bullshit, and not how things are supposed to work. I hope your talk with HR goes as smoothly as possible, and the misunderstandings can be resolved quickly and painlessly.

Design Thinking about sexuality in communities 

@indi I think "demisexual" is the term folks use these days for "emotional connection gating physical intimacy." Inside the emotional event horizon, though, I'm pretty much fair game; I'm specifically and explicitly into getting the other party off. My own needs exist independently of that and they are important in their own right, but they're as often fulfilled in passing by focusing on others as they are by explicitly focusing on myself.

Design Thinking about sexuality in communities 

Re the current discussions about making friends in communities where open sexuality is common, I'm thinking about how we can do better with tools and values about communication.

So, I have a question for folks, especially those who feel they're not well-served in these communities currently:

What do YOU, personally, want others to know about your needs, regarding sexuality or lack thereof?

(Answers in DMs okay!)

Re: Sexuality in Communities 

@indi @mawr @Ulfra_Wolfe@witches.town At the risk of shifting over into another line of work, it sounds like we've got a couple of problems that we could do a better job of addressing. How do we help people communicate needs ahead of time so that incompatibilities are caught early? How do we do that in a way that doesn't discourage people from experimentation? And how do we show support for varying levels of comfort and safety with communication, as well as varying needs?

Re: Sexuality in Communities 

@indi That's fair, and I apologize if I made more meaning out of a poor word choice than was indicated.

Re: Sexuality in Communities 

@indi @mawr I'm absolutely aware it's not universal; I'm stating it for myself as a level-setting exercise because it does sound like many of us are coming to this from a very diverse set of positions. I know it doesn't always work out that way; I've observed it. And again, I know I don't live up to my ideals, but I know where I'm aiming, and I would rather own my own shortcomings than ask people to try to work around them.

Re: Sexuality in Communities 

@indi @mawr This is an interesting framing, because I don't tend to be physically intimate with people until I'm already emotionally intimate with them, so I don't think of it as "indulging" in cuddling at all! Cuddling, to me, is merely one of many ways in which people who're already "intimate" express that intimacy, but that intimacy is built through intellectual and social and spiritual connections first.

Re: Sexuality in Communities 

@mawr @indi And I guess that's where my confusion happens, because for me when somebody declines at step 3, the answer is "okay" and we go back to step 2. For me, wanting more and better sex in the world requires recognizing when "more" doesn't mean "better," and being at step 2 with somebody is no less inherently meaningful or intimate than being at step 3. It's another kind of intimacy, but not necessarily another _level_ of intimacy.

Re: Sexuality in Communities 

@mawr I should also be clear that I'm not trying to say any harm should be thought of as "acceptable." It shouldn't matter if only one person is hurt by something; everyone matters. My question was whether it's fair to call something that happens so infrequently a pattern.

If it bothers you, it's worth saying something, regardless, and I will do my best to listen. I know I probably haven't done that well. I'm trying not to be defensive. I apologize.

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